Adamo has met his match.

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Bruce on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:44 pm

Off topic: Matt, I really hope you're sig/avatar is some defamatory joke at the Tories and that you're not actually considering voting for them! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Matthew on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:45 pm

Why should I not vote for the Tories
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Storm on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:50 pm

All the conservatists here are christians

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Bruce on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:53 pm

Because they are all that is evil in the world?
And David Cameron is a slimy bastard.


I actually haven't got a good reason, it just comes down to this basically.

If your quite wealthy and want to keep it: vote conservative
If your not and believe the wealthier should be made to pay more: vote labour


Last edited by Bruce on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Matthew on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:22 pm

That's total bollocks
A lot of perfectly good people have made their own wealth and having half of it taken by the government every year amounts to legalised stealing; particularly if its spent on wages of bureaucrats and civil servants in government, giving amnesty to illegal immigrants, paying the benefits of those who dont deserve it (those who can work but choose not to), paying towards the United Nations/EU who only turn around and impose rules on us against our will etc.

Case in point: Both my great grandfather and his son were working class men - the former was a Welsh coal miner and the latter worked in the post office and served during WWII at El Alamein. My dad, although relatively well off when he was younger but by no means prosperous, had to work his way up - and did so through the highly beneficial grammar school system - until he graduated from UCL with a first class degree in chemical engineering and is now a successful accountant. Thanks to him; both my brother and I have had the privelage of attending a good independent fee-paying school and now my brother's about to graduate from Cambridge with a first class degree in maths and I start at Oxford in the Autumn. And all of this wealth has been generated because of hard work from the bottom up; aided by a Conservative-supported grammar school.

The tax money spent by Labour on numerous useless schemes ranging from surveillance technology, pointless NHS IT systems, a senseless War in Iraq (to be perfectly frank) and countless other calamities could have been spent on what the individual who has earned it wants to do. And when the bloody government runs out of our hard-earned money? Hike up the stealth taxes on alcohol, booze and fags, and borrow us into the biggest government deficit this country has seen since records began. As for inheritance money; why should we punish and tax people who have spent a life time building up wealth and want to pass it on to their children?

I'm all for benefits where benefits are due, but far too much of hard earned taxpayer money has been wasted under Labour.

And then you consider this government's absolutely dreadful record on human rights and civil liberties over the last 13 years. ID cards? Police stop and search powers? The Terrorism Acts of 2000, 2002 and the Counter-terrorism Act of 2008.

On top of that, what do they do about our involuntary commitments to the EU? They promise in their 2005 manifesto that we'd elect them on the basis we'd have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. And what does Labour do? They turn around and the British public in the face as they sign up without any form of referendum, knowing full well that the British public would vote against them. At least the Tories would give us referendums before any more of Britains sovereignty is given up to the European Union.

And don't get me started the economy. This Labour party SOLD OFF OUR GOLD for DIRT CHEAP during the boom years. The complete misunderstanding and haphazard comprehension of market capitalism by Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor; the proposed but completely misguided and complacent "we can eradicate boom and bust". So we sell of our gold, and now what does Britain have in assets during a world recession? An almost worthless currency, trillions of pounds worth of government debt, a ridiculous budget deficit of which the next 5 generations of British people will have to pay for, and a terrible trade surplus.

But apart from that, yes - let's vote for Labour or the LibDems and sign our lives away.
No doubt many tell you otherwise, but that's my take on it

To quote a famous headline: "would the last person to leave Britain please turn out the lights!"

P.S. and to anyone who says Thatcher ruined Britain...?
Think about the 1970's before you say that! The strikes were ruining the country; these men were soon-to-be unemployed regardless of what Thatcher did because they worked in a naturally failing industry. You can't blame a government for that - the 1980s gave many parts of Britain unheard of prosperity and long may that continue

Well that was off-topic, but the point still remains, gringo is shit
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Bruce on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:31 pm

First of all I by no means like labour and yes they have made a lot of mistakes, but it's a two horse race and frankly both parties suck in my opinion, so it's basically vote for the guy you hate the least.

You are right, the government needs a huge clean up on spending.
I'm also against lazy fucks draining the system, I particularity like the idea of the conservatives three strike policy, to reduce the amount of people on benefits who don't need to be: http://www.inbsconservatives.org.uk/conservative-party-strikes-policy-crack-benefit-fraud/

But taxing the wealthier more is something that should happen, although I am not aware of the amount they get taxed at the moment.

Edit: Sorry for not giving a detailed reply but you raised over a dozen points that each deserve a thread of there own. scratch
Double edit: Sorry for derailing this thread. clown

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Kung-Pow on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:50 pm

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Matthew on Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:05 am

Bruce wrote:First of all I by no means like labour and yes they have made a lot of mistakes, but it's a two horse race and frankly both parties suck in my opinion, so it's basically vote for the guy you hate the least.

xD Well I don't know how anyone could still like Gordon Brown Razz

Also, kung, the BNP are national socialists
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Falc0n on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:26 am

Kung-Pow wrote:

he looks like an older boomlala

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lol falcon you pretty funny but i think [J]0£L - Xzi is crazy how about u he should go to rehab he is addicted to crazy drugs. lol lolipoplol lolpoo
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Boomlala on Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:28 am

I only know of 5 UK parties:

Conservative: The party I'd vote for. I'm a staunch proponent of free market capitalism, and I agree with the jest of their political stances. By the way, Thatcher did what she needed to do. The mining industry wasn't gonna survive anyway.
Labour: Never vote left. Socialism is never viable.
LibDem: The other party I'd think about. Their Freedom Bill sounds excellent. But I don't know enough about their other policies to really make a judgment.
UKIP: Only know about them because Farage called Belgium a non-country, and insulted the European president at the same time.
BNP: Racist, homophobic, protectionist, capital punishment, ... The list goes on.

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Xris² on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:42 am

Kung-Pow wrote:

OH MY GOD KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Grazor on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:15 am

If he got into power I would get kicked out of England haha

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Kung-Pow on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:17 am

hes doing something right... 1 million voters in the last poll.

and u wont be kicked out ^^ he would freeze immigration so no other races are allowed in.
Lol.
bad childhood maybe?
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Grazor on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:26 am

I bet when he was young he just got made fun of by a load of black kids and they wouldn't let him hang with them.

So then he made the BNP.

End.

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Matthew on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:02 am

Boomlala wrote:
LibDem: The other party I'd think about. Their Freedom Bill sounds excellent. But I don't know enough about their other policies to really make a judgment.

The lib dem have a fair few left-of-centre policies.
They also want to severely limit Britain's nuclear defence capabilities and also sign up fully to the EU - something which many British are opposed to (but the worst thing is that we wouldnt even get a referendum)
Also, because neither Labour or LibDem are likely to obtain an overall majority (what you need for a working government here), they're probably going to form together in a coalition - bad news
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by *Hule* on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:12 am

hahaha yea the dude looked like Boomlala older Razz

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Falc0n on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:15 am

Rofl!

funny how this topic turns into a political shit bag

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Boomlala on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:17 am

How are the polls by the way?

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Storm on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:18 am

It is SHIT!

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Grazor on Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:22 am

There should be a section just for Matt to talk about all this politics.

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by lone on Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:34 am

From the little I know about it, I think the conservative party has (and always had) much better politicians than Labour.
The sucking of Labour does say however, nothing about the validation of their ideals. They should therefore not be judged by previous mistakes. I do accept that when a ballot draws near, there has to be something to base your vote on, and history is a good way to determine your choise.

Frankly, I think that left winged parties have a much more difficult goal set for themselves than right winged or center parties. They will also, at first sight, make less progress in a given period of time. This has a very simple reason: their prime goal is not set upon making economic progress, but humane progress through ideals such as equality. (in simple comparison: Hitler made Germany rich, but to what cost?)

For that reason, a country cannot become big under socialism. Socialism is more of a politics that should be applied to a country that already is big.


and WTF Johnny is back? :s

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Matthew on Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:42 pm

Boomlala wrote:How are the polls by the way?

Not good. Most polls have LibDem on roughly 33%, Conservative on 32% and Labour around 28%.
Funnily enough, Britain had its first televised election debate last Thursday. In many parts of the UK, particularly in the North and Scotland, the LibDem party were not particularly well known AT ALL, and it wasn't much better in the South.

But for some reason, Cleggmania has swept the nation since Thursday - apparently he performed well, but didnt appeal to me.. scratch (Nick Clegg is the leader of the LibDems) Anyway, that's why theyre in the lead whereas before they held only 20-22% of the vote, with the Conservatives on around 37-39% and Labour on 32-34%. There are 2 more debates to come (this thursday and next thursday), and then the election is on the Thursday after that (so 2 weeks tomorrow).
But in the UK, mere percentage of vote does not turn into actual parliamentary power.
The election system is called First Past the Post, and people vote for a candidate within a seat, like an area of Britain - there are around 640 of them. Then its the party who has the most seats who wins power; so if support for the lib dems is really high (100%) but only in 20 constituencies then they will win those seats, but will only have 20/640 seats in Parliament; so its disproportionate.

Anyway, unfortunately, Labour support is fairly concentrated in the Northern seats (enough to win most of them), but spread a lot around the North/wales/Scotland - so they could get the lowest share of the vote and still get the most seats in parliament. Kinda retarded, but it delivers decisive government. The Conservatives don't have it too bad; most of the south is Tory.

But like I said in the previous post, the Liberal Democrats wont win outright for the reason above ^. Their share of vote is too spread to win many seats, so a Liberal-Labour coalition is likely (and god forbid because it means Gordon Brown will be Prime Minister again since he's the incumbent). So 38% of the country who votes Tory will see the complete opposite of what they want (more Brown) even if Labour only win 30% - because the Liberals would have 32%. Tragic huh? Luckily, coalitions usually fall apart as they can't decide what they want! You must have seen it in Belgium over and over and over again...
I'd give a lib-lab coalition one year and I reckon it will fall apart. Roll on another General Election and I think the Tories will win given how the public would've seen how bad the liberals AND labour really are...

And Lone, Socialism I see is more of an ideal that people aspire to: you might not be able to get pure socialism but you can try your hardest to reach it (through equality campaigns etc)
Conservatism/free-market neo-liberalism is a much more realistic/practical target. It's also something I see as an ideal based on principle - something to aspire to as well, so there's a double bonus xD
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Boomlala on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:15 pm

Sounds like the USA election system, only on a smaller scale (or larger, depending on how you look at it exactly). Person/party with the most 'states' wins, doesn't mean they necessarily have the most votes (Bush-Gore 2000 election). It's why I don't like area-based elections, I'm much more favorable to a 'flat count' of votes.

I would argue for a LibDem-Tory coalition (LibDem being the lesser of two evils, especially the libertarian wing of the party, I specifically like their support of a welfare state), but there seem to be several key differences in policies that would not allow for such a union. Such is life

LibDem-Labour does seem viable, two left parties (the horror) who appeal both to the social democrats (the valiant reformers, lol) and the disgruntled trade union worker.

I'm all too familiar with 'coalition fallout'. The infamous Rainbow Government of 1999: 2 Thatcherite parties, 2 socialist parties and 2 environmentalist parties, all together in one big group to overturn the 40-year old reign of the christian democrats. Or the 'communautary' problems between Flemish and Walloon parties from a couple of years ago.

EDIT: Not to mention the nightmare of Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde, today was the deadline for a government agreement on the issue.

I personally like the concept of a welfare state providing in certain basic needs (education, health, ...), but leaving everything else for a free market, with a classical liberal agenda on social issues (same-sex marriage, freedom of religion, etc etc). Don't know how that sort of system is called exactly.


Last edited by Boomlala on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Matthew on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:23 pm

Either classical liberalism or neo-liberal conservatism
A LibDem/Tory coalition won't work like you said - too split over Europe
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Re: Adamo has met his match.

Post by Kung-Pow on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:45 pm

to sum this thread up, since its about governments now.


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Re: Adamo has met his match.

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